Google Lunar X PRIZE Community Forums

General Discussion :: RD191 for Angara is ready!

Author: gritz
Subject: RD191 for Angara is ready!
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:14 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 0

Rocket engine RD191 for Angara rocket was announced.

Fuel - kerosene and oxygen.
Thrust - 2,210,000 N (221 tons).
Weight - 2200 kilograms (2.2 tons).
Thrust regulation - 38-100%.

First stage of Angara, named Buyka (where RD191 is installed), is controlled and returns on Earth without destruction. This is good news for price of lunch

http://www.vz.ru/society/2008/9/5/203826.html (on russian, you can see photo )
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General Discussion :: RE: Oil crisis - argument for alternative propulsion?

Author: gummer
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:22 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

Hi phil,i'm sure you know all about space politics,look whats going on at nasa right now with orion.So what would happen if one country comes up with a space drive,they could control space .would you want to be responsible for that.I was just trying to defend the gentlemans water arguement.
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General Discussion :: RE: Oil crisis - argument for alternative propulsion?

Author: Phil Stooke
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:32 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

Any ideas are welcome, but let us know when you have a working prototype!

Phil
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Author of "The International Atlas of Lunar Exploration"
Departments of Geography and Physics/Astronomy
University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada

General Discussion :: RE: Oil crisis - argument for alternative propulsion?

Author: gummer
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:30 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

Yes alternauta, water is the only fuel that should be used for space travel but not the way experts are studying old scientific laws that don't apply or the theoretic principles are incomplete,remember the experts of yesteryear who thought the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe.Study special relativity and you may find the answer you are looking for about water.Here's a hint to keep in mind, they can creat zero [g] for a few minutes in a jumbo jet yet they can't creat one[ g] aboard there spacecraft,i laugh every time i see a floating astronaut on the space station.
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Mystery Team! :: RE: It's no mystery to us :-)

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:48 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 27

Nice interview. Hmm, Mountain Time.

Okay, I've got it...

You guys are in Utah and the Mormons want to build a temple on the moon, right? And the reason it's a mystery is because religions always start with a little mystery!
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General Discussion :: RE: Oil crisis - argument for alternative propulsion?

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:02 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

2H2+O2-->2H2O+HeatEnergy

The heat energy can be used to drive a vehicle.

But if energy is conserved, then in order to split 2H2O into 2H2+O2, the splitting process must absorb an equivalent amound of heat energy energy from the surroundings in order to cause the splitting. It has to be from the surroundings because H2O is H2O both before splitting and after recombination.

For example, suppose a catalyst enables H2O to be split when a molecule has an energy greater or equal to the energy obtained when H2+O are combined to form water. The loss in energy is then made up for by the ambient temperature of the surroundings. The H2/O2 will be released as gas. The catalyst thus enables energy to be pumped out of the surroundings, without creating or destroying energy.

So I wouldn't dismiss the Japanese announcement.
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ARCA :: RE: First Spaceflight

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:38 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 6

gerula wrote:

About Astrobotics - your a bit malicious, aren't you... Why not to have a fancy or stylish wheel, if you afford it.

Why waste money when there are children in the world who need to get their teeth fixed? Stylish wheels are for pimps and their pimpmobiles. Scientists should have enough sense to be economical. When I hear someone talk casually about spending $2,500 per pound (3,858 Euros per kilogram) on simulated moon dust, I think "primadonna", that's what I think.

And I'm not trying to be malicious. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. But when I see primadonnas who hold out their bare hands hands to polish off stylish wheels WHILE they're still being machined, I have to raise a skeptical eyebrow. It's just an honest evalulation.

By the way, where do you live now? Are you still in Romania?

Phil Stooke wrote:

my prediction is that a conventional launcher will power the winner.

I think it is fair to say that more teams have paid the $10,000 registration fee than can afford even a discount conventional launcher, such as the one SpaceX plans to offer. In this respect, I think ARCA's approach is intelligently unique. Now, as far as a learning curve goes, I think SpaceX has shown that even with the benefit of accepted technologies, it ultimately takes real tests. But I think the real clincher is this: The most important thing ARCA contributes to the private space race may be to show everyone how easy it really is to get into orbit!

By the way, the Soviets did not worry about the piecemeal approach, and this is precisely how they got to be the first to land something on the moon. But when it comes to manned spaceflight, then I agree with you 100%. This is why the NASA program was successful in manned lunar exploration, even though it was second string in orbit and in unmanned lunar exploration.

Launch frequently--history has shown that this is the best strategy for unmanned moon exploration. SpaceX is too expensive for any of the teams to do this. And as their recent effort shows, a subtle glitch can bring the whole thing crashing down.

For these reasons, I submit that ARCA is presently in the lead. Now, if SpaceX or another conventional launch provider can come up with a dependable ride into space, then of course it is reasonable to expect that one or two primadonnas will be able to afford it. And I do have some confidence in Elon at SpaceX in this respect.

That is why I am so eager to see ARCA go ahead quickly. Time is on ARCA's side. If ARCA can keep to a tight time schedule, with frequent launches, I believe ARCA could win. It would be an upset within an upset. The X PRIZE itself is an upset for traditional government-based projects, and this would be an upset even within the X PRIZE!

Go ARCA!
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ARCA :: RE: First Spaceflight

Author: Phil Stooke
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:05 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 6

I wish ARCA well with their attempt to launch this way. We do need innovations in launch technology. But I remain skeptical about using a brand new launcher to win this prize. It's not easy to get into space at all, and getting it right first time is even harder. Space-X shows us that using a conventional approach - they got close but a small problem missed during tests prevented a success each time.

Ideally one would want a series of test flights, each extending the learning curve a bit. First, presumably, the balloon, subscale and full size with dummy payloads. Then maybe static firings of the rocket. Then a test launch without a payload and so on. Not to mention a parallel effort testing the lander and rover. I know ARCA has some history here, but how much has been done? My concern is that these steps take time, and every mistake sets the schedule back, so in the end a team using a conventional approach (plus extra fundraising to pay for the launcher) wins the prize.

I'm happy to be proved wrong, of course. But my prediction is that a conventional launcher will power the winner.

Phil
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Phil Stooke
Author of "The International Atlas of Lunar Exploration"
Departments of Geography and Physics/Astronomy
University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada

General Discussion :: RE: Oil crisis - argument for alternative propulsion?

Author: gerula
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:41 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

I don't understand why this discussion, about thermodynamics...

Alternauta quoted a text that is talking about generating Hydrogen and Oxygen out of water... And carrying water in the fuel tank instead of a ready to blow fuel... Not to compress or decompress a gas or water or something... What? We are going down to terms now - water cannot be fuel...

Am I wrong?

ARCA :: RE: First Spaceflight

Author: gerula
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:32 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 6

stockpotato wrote:

gerula,

If SpaceX doesn't make its next attempt, we can tell jokes like "Needs Viagra" or that their theme song is "I can't get no satisfaction!" But for ARCA we'll just have to wait and see. Astrobotic has been showcasing its rover a lot. But there hasn't been a lot on their lander. I'm a little skeptical about their lander. Plus, they haven't announced how they are getting to moon orbit. But if they work those things out, then they look like a serious contender.

I would like both to suceed... SpaceX has nothing new in terms of launching technology (according to my English) except the fact that they are private company... If their financing is alive they will suceed. And this should solve the getting into orbit issue for allot of teams.
Well, there is the price issue, but - hell - you pay for getting the cake.
About ARCA - I would like them to suceed for two reasons:
first: I am Romanian (you know that patriotic desire of seeing your team on the podium at the Olimpics)
second: they are pushing to an out of the box thinking about space launch.
Not to mention that there is a bit of poetry in their approach. They are making me dreamin just like Jules Verne did once.

About Astrobotics - your a bit malicious, aren't you... Why not to have a fancy or stylish wheel, if you afford it.

stockpotato wrote:

In contrast, ARCA seems to have the right bang for the right buck. I wouldn't be surprised if ARCA pulled a profit out of its winnings. Another advantage ARCA has is time. If ARCA can pull a clean effort out of its next launch, they are almost certain to win, unless they have no rover. Astrobotic is aiming for early 2010. If ARCA can slide in before that, then they would beat Astrobotic's money. But the question is about their rover. So far it looks like they are all about the launch.

We'll have to see.

For sure they are trying to... Bogdan said it here, in the second post of his
I would too...

ARCA :: RE: First Spaceflight

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:44 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 6

gerula,

If SpaceX doesn't make its next attempt, we can tell jokes like "Needs Viagra" or that their theme song is "I can't get no satisfaction!" But for ARCA we'll just have to wait and see. Astrobotic has been showcasing its rover a lot. But there hasn't been a lot on their lander. I'm a little skeptical about their lander. Plus, they haven't announced how they are getting to moon orbit. But if they work those things out, then they look like a serious contender.

I'm skeptical about Astrobotic. But I'm confident that Red Whittaker could get a rover to pilot itself around the moon. So it's just a question of whether or not they do some kind of mama's boy mess up on their way to the moon--kind of like when the guy at 1:22 into their machine shop video holds a red rag to a wheel while he is machining it. Things like that tell me there could be a red flag in Whittaker's outfit. But I hope for the best.

Another thing that makes me skeptical about Astrobotic is they seem to be a little too well funded. You don't need to machine a rover wheel out of solid aluminum. Get a sheet, crimp it for tracks, bend it to make it round, add backing at the seam, and add rivets. But here we have a guy talking about spending $2,500/lb for simulated moon soil to test tire traction! It almost sounds like he is working on a resume to make purchases for the Government.

In contrast, ARCA seems to have the right bang for the right buck. I wouldn't be surprised if ARCA pulled a profit out of its winnings. Another advantage ARCA has is time. If ARCA can pull a clean effort out of its next launch, they are almost certain to win, unless they have no rover. Astrobotic is aiming for early 2010. If ARCA can slide in before that, then they would beat Astrobotic's money. But the question is about their rover. So far it looks like they are all about the launch.

We'll have to see.
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ARCA :: RE: First Spaceflight

Author: gerula
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:10 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 6

stockpotato wrote:

ARCA...when is your test flight? Inquiring minds want to know! I have big confidence in you.

Yes, yes! I'm backing you, stockpotato...
What are you doing ARCA? We have allot of hopes about you... I want to see a rocket going into space from a balloon! That is going up from a ship... Situated in the middle of the ocean.

ARCA :: RE: First Spaceflight

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:02 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 6

SpaceX says it may launch in September.

http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

But wherrrres ARCA? I haven't heard anymore. The whole summer has gone by and not a peep.

ARCA...when is your test flight? Inquiring minds want to know! I have big confidence in you.
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Looking to Form a Team :: RE: Looking for French Team

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:07 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 5

Bonjour,

I didn't know about the glxp-france.org website. It says "Il n'y a pas encore d'�quipe fran�aise inscrite!" I think that means no French team has signed up for the X PRIZE yet, which is funny, because the International Space University is in France.

But as I have predicted before, I think there are really a number of French teams already working on the rockets. But they are probably a little small, so they are embarrassed to show them!

Qui, qui!

Maybe we will have to settle for the French Canadians, no?

Or maybe we should put a little Moon on top of the Eifel Tower. And then the French teams can test their little rockets!

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Looking to Form a Team :: RE: Looking for French Team

Author: LAURAND Xavier
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:37 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 5

Bonjour,

I just signed up on glxp-france.org.
Do you know if a french team will be created?? Any news from french or "french talking" people?

Thanks you very much.