Google Lunar X PRIZE Community Forums

General Discussion :: RE: Lack of X-prize progress

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:25 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 61

RocketScientist,

Long time no see. Where have you been?

Your company probably didn't want to join the Google Lunar X PRIZE because it was leaked to the press that "Google acknowledges it's an advertising gimmick." A big company has to perform. It cannot simply tag along for the ride. Also, the idea of being beaten by a small, unknown outfit could be humiliating.

Why don't you join team Frednet?

P.S. Now that you're back, there is a two-question challenge I have proposed to the other forumgoers (who are now rather angry about it) but none has been able to answer. I would like to see you take a crack at it.

How do you explain 1) a four-second javelin flight and 2) an absence of any on-camera footage of astronauts playing around while tossing things on the moon? (even a moon rock) It is on this thread (see letter to NASA):

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/forum-glxp/viewtopic.php?t=1734&start=121
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I've Got an idea :: RE: High rate data link through visible light communication.

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:21 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 52

cpooley,

You should consider licensing my dual laser technology because otherwise, without employing a reference-based comparator function according to my invention, you will need to have much more focusing precision and will be more vulnerable to variations in optical intensity. Using my dual laser technology, signal states are discriminated in a relative way, based on a ratio of intensities between a reference laser and a signal laser. Unlike discriminating signal states in an absolute way, the ratio is less subject to variation, and therefore provides stronger discrimination of signal states.
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I've Got an idea :: RE: Balloons as high altitude launch platforms for satellites

Author: Part-Time-Scientists
Subject: Rockoon, or how we learned to love the rocket ...
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:53 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 2

Related to this topic:

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/teams/part-time-scientists/blog/rockoon-or-how-we-learned-to-love-the-rocket

I've Got an idea :: RE: High rate data link through visible light communication.

Author: cpooley
Subject: Laser link financing
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:35 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 52

SELENE said:
"So you have nothing you could show potential costumers? How much you would say are the developement and manufacturing costs of a laser link, moon-earth?"
----------------------------
Detailed financing aspects for this or other segments of Microlauncher system will be done privately with prospective sponsor/investor/customer

In general, most of the costs will be infrastructure, and balloon launches if tht method is used for demonstrations. The parts costs can be
kept fairly low by using COTS parts-- no custom .

For lunar distance and less, the receivers can use ordinary APD, not the presently expensive new generation of Geiger mode diodes A lunar signal may be on the order of one nW/square meter.
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General Discussion :: RE: Lack of X-prize progress

Author: Next Giant Leap
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:43 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 61

Rocket Scientist wrote:

But upper management simply wasn't interested. It was at this point that I realized that without major funding our team was dead in the water. I was bitterly disappointed. I love the idea of the Google Lunar X Prize. But until the cost of launching payloads into space drops dramatically I just don't see any Google X Prize team reaching the Moon anytime within the next few years. It's just still too expensive. However, I would love for nothing more than to be proved wrong!

Glad to see you on the forum again Adam! Hard to believe that it'll be two years this November since the fun began. Back at the start, I considered your potential team our most serious competitor because I feared that L might just back you.
Keep in touch,
MikeJ

General Discussion :: RE: Lack of X-prize progress

Author: rgclark
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:47 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 61

Rocket Scientist, another approach might first try to get launched a CubeSat to test the feasibility of at least getting to the Moon:

CubeSat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat

The launch cost of a CubeSat is in the range of $40000-$50000,

Cost to Complete a CubeSat?
http://www.pumpkininc.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000013.html

This is within the range that colleges and universities can afford and they have launched their own, purchasing space piggybacked on other launches.
As an employee of a satellite manufacturer, you would also have some important information in this regard. A key question that has been raised on other forums is that if you have a small piggyback payload that has to go to the Moon or even just GEO that payload has to have its own thruster. But multi-million dollar satellite owners might not like some small, low cost, amateur made satellite packed with fuel right next to their own million dollar satellite.
There are often cases where more than one satellite to GEO is launched on the same rocket, where each needs its own thruster, but that was when both were million dollar satellites so each satellite owner would have some confidence in the quality control of the other.
What I was thinking is if the thrusters for the small CubeSat, say, are made by the same company that makes the thrusters for the major satellite, and that same company also has complete control of when and how the CubeSat's thrusters are fired, then perhaps they would have more confidence that the piggybacked payload would not cause a mishap.
So a question you might investigate is how much would it cost to put a thruster on one of these small 1 kg size CubeSats so that it could, for example, reach lunar orbit? And would the company have confidence it would work right alongside the thrusters it built for the million-dollar bird?

Bob Clark

General Discussion :: RE: Lack of X-prize progress

Author: Phil Stooke
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:21 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 61

Unfortunately, this is what I would have expected. If the mission doesn't have some revenue-generating component, there can be no business case, it seems to me. That's why some teams are working on attracting paying customers, carrying payloads, or trying to tie the mission to media content or entertainment activities. Even that will be tough in the current economy and if launches remain expensive.

Phil
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General Discussion :: RE: Lack of X-prize progress

Author: rgclark
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:21 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 61

Rocket Scientist wrote:

... But, then I hit a wall. I simply could not prove any business case for my company pouring financial resources and manpower into the Google Lunar X Prize. We even argued that we would all work off hours for free. We were not even asking for money, just access to company facilites (testing facilites, manufacturing facilites, out of spec mateirals and components, etc.)

Perhaps one way to go would be to instead devise a strategy for making legitimate opportunities for other companies to advertise their products.
See these possibilities:

Fund Raising Idea for Teams.
http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/forum-glxp/viewtopic.php?t=1736

Bob Clark

Why the Moon :: RE: Will Astrobotic Technology, Inc. be on the Moon by July 2009

Author: Phil Stooke
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:10 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

Yes, it is - but the date for the first Astrobotic flight has slipped to May 2011 according to their website.

Phil
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Author of "The International Atlas of Lunar Exploration"
Departments of Geography and Physics/Astronomy
University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada

Why the Moon :: RE: Will Astrobotic Technology, Inc. be on the Moon by July 2009

Author: Rocket Scientist
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:47 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 15

Hey, it's July 2009 now.

General Discussion :: RE: Lack of X-prize progress

Author: Rocket Scientist
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:36 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 61

To the problem of funding let me share my story. I work for a major aerospace company that designs and builds geosynchronous telecommunications satellites. We have relationships with most of the major launch services providers. I quickly formed a core team of engineers and technicians. I even got a program director to talk to upper management for us. I'm talking the CEO and president of the company. I even spoke to a man responsible for acquiring government contracts and how we could potentally incorporate the Google Lunar X Prize into a corporate strategy. But, then I hit a wall. I simply could not prove any business case for my company pouring financial resources and manpower into the Google Lunar X Prize. We even argued that we would all work off hours for free. We were not even asking for money, just access to company facilites (testing facilites, manufacturing facilites, out of spec mateirals and components, etc.) But upper management simply wasn't interested. It was at this point that I realized that without major funding our team was dead in the water. I was bitterly disappointed. I love the idea of the Google Lunar X Prize. But until the cost of launching payloads into space drops dramatically I just don't see any Google X Prize team reaching the Moon anytime within the next few years. It's just still too expensive. However, I would love for nothing more than to be proved wrong!

I've Got an idea :: RE: High rate data link through visible light communication.

Author: SELENE
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:13 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 52

cpooley wrote:

I have not yet built a medium range test yet, because that will await a deal on developing the system, or another deal involving a Terrestrial data link that may come up.

So you have nothing you could show potential costumers? How much you would say are the developement and manufacturing costs of a laser link, moon-earth?
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General Discussion :: RE: JAMAICA: MOON RUNNINGS (Official Jamaican Team)

Author: SvenLittkowski
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:53 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 2

Thanks. Well, we all know that the Saturn rocket was successful. So this is a good start for our project. Thanks, by the way, for your nice feedback!

We hope to get much more feedback and a good poll participation!
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General Discussion :: RE: NASA to the moon - LRO/LCROSS to launch on Thursday, 18June

Author: stockpotato
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:11 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 2

I read today that the LRO took its first pictures "south" of the Sea of Clouds, where Apollo 14 (of Ed Mitchell's four second javelin fame) is supposed to have landed. But it didn't take any pictures of Apollo 14.

Here is what I read from the NASA site: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/359938main_LRO_factsheet.pdf

The Lunar Reconnaissance Camera will take: "Thousands of 50-cm/pixel images, and entire moon at 100 m in UV, Visible. Polar illumination conditions." At 50-cm/pixel you should be able to make out an outline of the javelin in the crater.

"LROC consists of two narrow-angle cameras (NACs) to provide 0.5 meter scale panchromatic images over a 5-km swath, a wide-angle camera (WAC) to provide images at a scale of 100 meter in seven color bands over a 60-km swath, and a Sequence and Compressor System (SCS) supporting data acquisition for both cameras. LROC is a modified version of the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter�s ConTeXt Camera (CTX) and MARs Color Imager (MARCI) provided by Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) in San Diego, Calif."

"Existing lunar datasets (including Lunar Orbiter, Apollo, Clementine, and Lunar Prospector) are insufficient to completely plan future lunar operations, especially in areas outside of the so-called �Apollo Zone� (the front side of the moon near equatorial areas visited by the Apollo missions), where imagery is sparse or of low resolution. In fact, we have better maps of Mars than we do of our own moon."

Reason: Low resolution hides things that aren't there. (Nothing not there to hide on Mars; something not there to hide on the moon.)

LRO Homepage: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/main/index.html
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Author: degree120
Subject: Get an Accredited College Degree In 5 Days
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:57 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 0

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